we have breaking news on many fronts, here and overseas. investigators not just scrambling to learn who turned the older bombing suspect toward radical islam, they're grappling right now here at home with the grim possibility -- and i do want to stress, it's just a possibility that for now, they may have dropped the ball. the possibility that not one, but two potential red flags, one to the fbi and now one to the cia were mistakenly down played or otherwise mishandled and opportunities were missed that might have prevented this

tragedy. we have new reporting on all of that for you. and reporting as well on a jihadist in russia. he was on the youtube channel after he came back from russia, he met with former members of the sector who -- did they teach them to make bombs? we don't know. >> we just had a young person who went to russia and chechnya that blew people up in boston. he didn't stay where he went but he learned something where he went and came back with a willingness to kill people. >> there's also the shadowy figure known as misha, the russian name would be michael who may have helped radicalize the older brother. again, may have. the suspect's father you can but not the mother who's wanted on

shoplifts charges here, will be flying to boston possibly tomorrow or friday. we're learning about how the two brothers lived and where they got their money. allegedly from selling drugs. that is a theory that law enforcement is working on. they don't have specific evidence on that. we'll find out more details tonight. many new developments as well as this. boyleston street, which has been a crime scene for a week and a half is open again. there is a memorial set up. the scars obviously remaining but this is part of the strong city that is no longer an open wound. and earlier today, more than 4,000 people, singer james taylor included gathered to remember a fallen mit police officer, call -- sean colier. murdered the suspect fled last thursday. vice president biden was at the service calling the bombing

suspects twisted, perverted, cowardly. what did authorities here and there know about the pair, especially the older one who travelled to russia last year for six months and was on the radar of russian intelligence a year before that. breaking news tonight from nick walsh and joe johns and gloria borger. joe, we start with you. we knew the fbi was approached by the russians in early 2011 to check out the older brother, tam tamerlansaying he flirted with extremism, now you're hearing the cia was approached later that year by the russians. what happened? >> that's right. the cia nominated him. put him up as a candidate for a terror watch list system. it's our understanding the agency's involvement led to an entry into one of the databases. it also says it shared its other information with agencies and departments which we believe to be the state department, homeland security, fbi and the national counter terrorism center, and we understand cia gave out different possible spellings of his name, and two possible dates of birth, anderson?

>> at this point do we know what the russians said to the u.s. about this guy, about the quality and information coming from the russians? >> here's what we know. we know that the information was thinned, we know that the russians are not likely to give up their sources to us it and when the united states authorities went back to them on more than one occasion and asked for more information, i'm told they did not get a case report back to us. having said that, the fact that this information was coming from the russians at all should raise a red flag. >> what about the money here? i mean, there is a money trail here that has to be followed. doesn't the it appear to be an expensive plot. you got some information about -- or a theory that law

enforcement is working with financing this spot or his income. his trip to russia. >> right. they call it a working theory. investigators are looking into whether he sold drugs as a way to earn income. we know that he had a wife who worked -- we know that the family was on welfare until 2012. as you point out, anderson, this is not a really expensive plot. not an expensive bomb. but he did go back to russia, and he had to finance that somehow and help his family while he was gone for six months, right? >> right. and it also just doesn't make sense to me, this is a guy who's married, has a small child. he tells his wife, i'm leaving for russia to rediscover my roots for six months. i'm going to leave you with this little kid, fend for yourself? >> right. >> there's a lot we don't know about the six month period in russia. do we know what piqued the russian's interests in the first place? do we know why they were suspicious enough to alert u.s.

officials? >> the best thing we have on that, anderson is the fbis narrative, russia had information that tsarnaev was planning to go there and join up with some unspecified underground groups. they say he made the request because he was a follower of islam, strong believer and he changed drastically since 2010, anderson. >> nick, in dagistan, it was reported the mother and brothers of these two were headed there tomorrow. now you're reporting something different? just one person is allegedly going to come into united states. >> that's correct. information is changing all the time this week. the last i heard, only the father will be going to the united states, and he'll be traveling after tomorrow. that could be friday or perhaps

later. russian state media saying they were both going today thursday, here in russia. much confusion about this. it's not clear if the mother is not going for some personal reasons or for any outstanding charges. >> there was an arrest warrant or there is an arrest warrant out for the mother on shoplifting charges and destruction of property charges. do we know if that played a part in her decision not to come because she could be arrested if she comes to the united states. >> she was very emotional about her son. i'm sure she wants to go to the u.s. to take forth in burials that are forth coming. the father going alone gives credence to the threat of action. much of what we've been hearing,

is that it may just be the father going back to the u.s., anderson. >> gloria, as jeff toobin pointed out earlier in the 8:00 hour, even if the father does come, he has no right to meet with his son, and if he did, law enforcement could very easily eavesdrop on that, listen to that, and anything that was discussed could be information they can use. there's no privileged conversation between a father and son. you also have information about the kinds of questions investigators are now asking about the brothers and their families. what are you hearing? >> right. and first of all, they're asking questions about the russians, we don't know, for example, anderson whether they were monitoring tamerlan when he went back to russia. we don't know the answers to those questions. we have to find out what was in their files. they're looking into the parents, the asylum. why were they looking to go back to a country they said they were prosecuted?

they obviously want to talk to the wife about what she knew. they're asking questions about income, where he got his money, was he subsidized. did he do it as investigators are looking at, did he sell drugs? there are all kinds of loose ends that they have to look. they have to look at themselves and make sure their information, they were sharing information in the appropriate ways and this just didn't get stove piped as we call it in washington. that was supposed to end on 9/11. >> talking to nic robertson earlier who is also in dagistan. there's a mosque that is a hotbed of radicalism. the question that remains, did the older brother have any connections with that mosque. did he attend. we're still trying to find out information about that. appreciate your reporting. a lot more to talk about globally, as well as locally. joining us now is former massachusetts homeland security adviser, juliet kayyem.

she is currently a "boston globe" columnist. we know the fbi and cia were aware of the elder brother. and yet he was available to plan an attack on u.s. soil. is there anyway to see this as a failure? >> we shouldn't look at it as a failure of the fbi. we don't know what they knew and when they knew it. what is a failure, there's been no way to unify databases. the elder brothers buying explosives in new hampshire. gun powder. he had to give a driver's license for that. immigrations, his leaving. was the fbi in boston pinged on that? we know they weren't pinged on the return. but if you can take all this information and combine it. there would have been much clearer red flag on this. why isn't the fbi getting all this information?

frankly, we don't know what's in the national security agency. normally the fbi does not have access to that raw intelligence. and so i think we're doing a disservice to the fbi by not giving it enough information on a timely basis. >> tom fuentes, do you see it in the same way? >> not exactly. much has been made about, aren't these agencies sharing since 9/11, the information -- i can tell you the way a joint terrorism task force is set up. every member of all of these agencies sit side by side. and all of them have access to these databases. it's not like you need to send a communication formally from the fbi to the department of homeland security or from the fbi to the state department. the representatives are sitting right there, and seeing the same information and have access to the same database. so that part of discussions in recent times is just not

accurate that information is felt -- yes, there are different databases, they have different purposes. and so the key linkup is the terror screening center, the tide database we heard of, which only has 500,000 names on it, to keep track of. that's why you have all of these different issues. >> tom, what interests you most in the last 24 hours that you've heard? >> i think i still want to know, what happened in russia. if allegedly russia is sending communications to both fbi and cia and saying, we have information that this guy intends to come to russia and meet with militants here, well, those militants are under 24/7 coverage in russia, as evidenced by the fact that abu dujan, he's killed by the russians in a major firefight this past december. so obviously, my expectation

would be if they're suspicious of tamerlan and they're watching this group, he should have wandered into their surveillance and come up on their radar by that. additionally, russia doesn't have the first amendment, fourth amendment, fifth amendment. they have no problem with, if they have radicals in a mosque, they're going to cover it. if they have militants meeting. they're going to cover it. if they have political groups that say bad things about the russian regime. this is a regime that just locked up a rock 'n' roll group because they criticized putin. i have a hard time understanding that this guy, when he arrives in russia, and meets with people that are so high on their radar, they kill him. how does that happen? >> they don't even have to allow him in russia, if they don't want to, right? >> that's right.

>> what we know now is two agencies have the concerns about the older brother. one of the federal agencies reviewed it, didn't get very far. russians go to the cia. none of those agencies determined on their own that this was a threat. this is where the information is now. he goes off to russia, the russians don't view him as a threat. because they're not watching him, they have standards that are very different from ours, that is what we know right now, the intelligence pieces are being put together to figure out, was there a ping that we should have gotten, because the russians told us something specific? it seems clear they didn't. or because information -- one agency had was not shared with another. it seems like every agency looking at it did not find him as a threat. it's hard for us to believe that now. but they were all going on the same information. >> also, tom pointed out, they have 500,000 people on this list. it's easy to say, they should have focused more on this guy. >> you have that many people on the list. there's dozens of intelligence agencies for all sorts of reasons.

the jtts has state and local representatives as they do in boston. they are feeding information in. you want the first list to be big, and then you whittle it down until you get to the no fly list or the terror watch list. those are the most extreme ones. you want that to be small otherwise they're going to miss people. >> anderson, this is not a routine request from russia. it season the. russians rarely do this. >> why would they have allowed him into russia? >> we don't know. they're inefficient as well. it's not a complete and total police state there. you can get through. the names are misspelled on pass ports. they do make mistakes as well. dagestan is a chaotic situation. the russians don't bring this up without a very good reason. why did the cia and fbi decide that he wasn't a threat?

on what basis? it's not like these things come in every day about. >> bob, in your gut, the key to you is what happened those six months in russia, right? >> absolutely. i mean, this could have been completely home grown, let's not exclude that. much scarier than if it came from abroad. i cannot believe he was in russia, in dagestan, converting to militant islam and didn't seek out fellow travelers. it doesn't seem reasonable to me. >> right. and adding to that, as we know, there's a lot of that six-month time line we don't know. he didn't show up at his dad's place or aunt's place until several months in his journey. we don't know what he was doing in all that time. he wasn't meeting with his relatives or living off his relatives. he had been living on welfare here in the united states. didn't have a job. how was he supporting himself, what was he doing? that's an open question.

>> i don't like the fact -- running gun battle with the police. he got in a fight with the police. there's -- on the face of it, he has some sort of military experience. you don't shoot it out, throw bombs out of the car, in a confrontation like this, unless you have some sort of prior experience. >> there's a level of confidence in that activity. bob, i appreciate it, tom, juliette as well. follow me on twitter during the next commercial break. i'll be trying to tweet throughout the hour. we have more on how the older suspect became more devout and then radicalized. misha, it's russian for michael. he may have played a key role in that process. a shadowy figure if he even exists. we don't know. we're trying to figure out details on that. and trying to find out if law enforcement is looking into this misha character.

the woman and child who tamerlan left for six months for russia. if you're married, you say to your wife, i'm leaving for russia for six months, i don't have a job, there's no way for me to give you money, i'm leaving you with this infant child. officials want to know what her role was if any of what was going on.

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the more you bundle, the more you save. now, that's progressive. breaking news tonight, two warnings from russian intelligence about the older bombing suspect. first the fbi, and then the cia cleared him. the cia recommended him for inclusion in a terrorism related database, which he was he was not put on the no fly list. he had at least one influence here at home in cambridge, a shadowy figure known as misha. it's the russian nickname for michael. i've heard a lot about it in the last 24 hours. what do we know about him, and do you buy his influence? >> we have an indication that he exists. it's not that clear that he does it's from a former

brother-in-law that wolf blitzer spoke to today. >> he was married to one of the sisters. >> he said he met this person twice, he was introduced to him. he witnessed some of the conversations. he says he didn't witness him radicalizing tamerlan but he he saw him speaking to him about possibly turning him in the direction of radicalization. he spoke to him twice, he met him. that's about the most tangible evidence that we have that exists. >> i saw that interview, the brother-in-law admits he has not seen tamerlan in the last two years, but he's talked to his father, and his father had expressed some concern about this guy? >> that's right. at one point i think it was around 2007, misha was there, and the father got upset and said, what is he doing here, get him out of there. that caused family tension.

we know there was family tension over other issues. >> it seems like what was happening was that the father was not himself becoming more devoutly religious, the mother was, the mother of tamerlan and kind of trading these conspiracy theories, from a blog posting who a woman who got statements from the mother, starting talking about 9/11 conspiracy theories that her son had gotten off the internet. >> there are some accounts that the mother and father might have had arguments about him being around this guy misha, we're not quite sure, we also have asked this mosque, the islamic society of boston where they went. do you know him? do you have any connection with him? that would seem the most natural place where they had met. nobody has heard of him, nobody has seen -- even anyone of his description, we don't know him, and we want to find him. >> the description that i read, i don't know if this is accurate. it is a bald guy with a red

beard beard of armenian dissent. >> we tracked him all day in the boston area, we don't necessarily think he's here. we're still tracking him, we looked up -- >> the key thing is, law enforcement is taking is seriously, we don't know the answer. with an on going investigation they are not going to say we are trying to track this guy down. >> the indications we're getting is that they may not know a lot about them right now. >> brian todd, thanks for running that down for us today. new information about the widow of tamerlan. we've been talking to people who know katie russell as well as her family. what they are saying about her, their relationship and what if anything she knew about what her husband was up to. also, still to come, what former president george w. bush has to say about the bombings. what he was thinking when he heard the news. we'll also have john king's interview with the president coming up. ♪

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start exploring at discoverlosangeles.com boylston street the scene of a crime is open again today. among the people who came to the bombing site, a woman whose both legs were injured in the attack. deborah? >> reporter: the coincidence that we happened to be here when she arrived and two other girls were passing by and all of them began hugging each other. they were standing basically where i'm standing right now. this was the site of the first bomb blast. you can see the memorial that's here right now. what's fascinating, when the blast went off, it came up from

underneath and then they were paralyzed for what felt like 5, 10 seconds. they didn't understand what was going on, and then all of a sudden things got into focus and they saw colors and they couldn't hear. it was almost as if they were experiencing it in slow motion. one thing they told me that was so striking. some of the folks that were nearest the blast, they absorbed the impact of the device, and others just walked away virtually unscathed. a twist of fate. they're still trying to come to terms with what happened. but they say, it's crazy, it feels like a dream, anderson. >> i was there earlier today. it was a somber and respectful mood. a lot of people have laid flowers. a makeshift memorial has sprung up where the blast went off. can you show us where they are right now, i know they've been taking out a section of concrete earlier? >> they have. these are the stores that

absorbed most of the impact. right here, this is where they believe the bomb went off. the forensic agents, the fbi and atf were here, and picking up physical pieces of evidence. this is a brand new concrete that's been laid down here. they removed that, and they're going to -- they're testing things, the blast pattern, bringing shrapnel out of pieces of stone and concrete. back here, you can see the windows are still blown out. all of that is going to be analyzed so investigators can understand how this device work. they still don't know how exactly the device worked, how it was put together. and the impact of the shrapnel. here a somber mood, people reflecting and realizing that tamerlan was standing pretty much where i am. >> we're learning more about his widow, katie russell. more information about her, she said through her attorney that

she had no idea what her husband was planning. her attorney says she's cooperating with law enforcement as much as she can. is she actually talking to law enforcement? people who know katie are speak out. what are you hearing in north kings town, in rhode island there? >> well, anderson, we talked to a number of people who knew katie, who know the russell family today, many of them have told me she was very likeable, well liked when she was in school. a good student. i spoke to her boss at the doughnut shop where she works when she was in high school down the road. she was very dependable, and like a daughter to him. i spoke with one of her co-workers at the time. robin aldridge, she doesn't think katie's getting a fair shake from the media and some of the people in this town. here's what she had to say a little earlier today. >> what are people saying? >> that she doesn't have a mind

of her own. and that she is a terrorist's wife. okay -- i don't know, she married the wrong person or his actions shouldn't be taken out on her. >> erin, you also spoke to russell's attorney briefly. what did he tell you? >> it was actually, there were two attorneys, and i spoke to the she. and she said earlier today, essentially that they're not talking, that she's acting on behalf of her client. they would not confirm or deny anything. we had a couple sensitive questions for her. she wasn't say whether or not kathryn has talked to the fbi yet. around her house here in north kingstown, there are a lot of federal agents here earlier today, a lot of media, that's largely died down. we don't know whether she's spoken to them or not, they will not say. anderson. >> erin, appreciate it. john king interviewed former

president george w. bush in advance of the dedication of his library. talk to me about what he was thinking when he heard about the boston bombings nine days ago? >> i was reminded that evil exists and that there are people in the world who are willing to kill innocent people to advance a cause. i don't know what this cause is, but we'll find out. way to create great-looking custom e-mails that bring customers through your door. sign up for your free trial today at constantcontact.com/try.

the nation stands with the good people of new york city and new jersey and connecticut as we mourn the loss of thousands of our citizens. >> the last major terror attack on american soil before the boston bombings happened. that was almost 12 years ago, of course. who can forget the image of the

president there at ground zero? the george w. bush library is going to be dedicated. all four living former presidents will attend. so will president obama. the library opens to the public coming up next month laura bush had a big hand in its design. it's been more than four years since the first couple left the white house. they are now grandparents. john king talked to them inside the library. >> thank you for your time. congratulations this is a beautiful place. congratulations on being grandparents. >> interesting time of life. >> it is. >> i want to spend most of our time on the lessons we will learn when we visit this place over the years. the investigation on going i don't want to get into details. as the man who was commander in chief on 9/11, what went through your mind when you heard explosions at the finish line of the boston marathon?

>> i was reminded that evil exists and that there are people in the world who are willing to kill innocent people to advance a cause. i don't know what this cause is. but we'll find out. the same week in a town close to us, a plant exploded. both incidents reminded me how fragile life can be for some. both incidents made us weak knowing that somebody was hurting a lot. >> let's focus on this place. it's beautiful. you're the librarian in the family. are you the decider when it comes to this family? >> well, i was the chairman of the design committee. >> yes is the answer. but it was really fun for me to work on this, because i am a librarian, and i'm particularly interested in architecture. we're very proud of the way it looks. it looks terrific.

>> it's an elegant building just like the chairman of the design committee. >> you will have all of the living presidents there for the dedication. >> you bet. >> what have you learned from the formers? your dad, president clinton, president carter, about how to be most effective? >> life doesn't end after you're president. in other words, you're going 100 miles an hour and in my case we walk up in crawford and i was going zero. the challenge is how to live life to its fullest. in my case, i've chosen to do so outside the limelight. on the other hand, i am confident that when this chapter of our life is finished, we will both be able to say that we've advanced the cause of peace and freedom and the -- helped improve the human condition. >> one of the things that i think is fascinating about the library, you've created this

exhibit called the decision points theater. >> yeah. >> where any visitor can walk in and see some of the advice you got -- >> you bet, and then make their own decisions based on what you saw at the time. i want to go to one of those. the iraq decision. which is something people always debate when they talk about that word you don't like, legacy. people in that room will see what you saw at the time. based on what you know now, do you wish that instead of the rumsfeld doctrine, which was lean and mean, that you could maybe adopt what your dad did in the first gulf war and gone in with overwhelming force? >> in my book, i pointed out there are some -- you know, tactics that need to be revisited. on the other hand, the removal of saddam hussein was the right decision. america's more secure. the iraqi people have a chance to live in a free society. the museum is a -- it does get people the opportunity to hear

the different points of view that i got on these particular issues. the purpose of which is not to try to defend the policy, but to show people what it's like to be the president and how you like decisions. the point is not to judge. history will ultimately judge the decisions that were made for iraq. i won't be around to see the final verdict on iraq. >> in other words, i will be dead. >> that's an interests way to put it. >> what's your sense now when you look at what you can do, and what is your sense now in what you can do and what the institute can do if you look at that region, if it's iraq, we talked about, it's a big question mark. look around syria, egypt. the whole region is in this incredibly volatile stage. the rights of women in some ways have been set back because of all the changes or at least held hostage to all the volatility? >> no. i think people worldwide are

looking at the rights of women. and seeing how important women are to every society. you look at countries where women's rights are marginalized and half the population is looked at, left out. you usually see a failing country. that's what we saw in afghanistan. i'm still worried about the women in afghanistan as we draw down our numbers of troops. >> what can you do about that? >> on the other hand women have made great strides in afghanistan. >> democracies take time to evolve. laura and i believe women will help lead the democracy movement in these young democracies. and part of our after life will be to enable and empower women. and to remind our country that our involvement overseas is necessary to our national security. >> i want to ask you, what will we learn from the theater and from all the memos that eventually will be made public about one of the toughest decisions of your presidency,

which was right before katrina. you had to decide whether to send in the federal troops. you had a big debate whether to overrule the governor? >> that's right. people learned about the debate of federal law related to natural disasters. natural disasters have been left to the governors and the role of the federal governments to be supportive. in this case, it was so overwhelmingly, and the infrastructure was so overwhelmed i had a tough choice to make. people would just learn the facts, that's all i care about, that's what i wrote in my book which i'm sure you seriously studied. >> you talk about the idea that you have a southern governor, a woman governor in a state with a large african-american population. a former governor yourself. people were telling you, maybe you need to declare an insurrection. >> which would have been difficult. >> it points out the dilemma. >> do you wish in hindsight you would have done it? >> no. no telling how history would

have recorded the situation. i can tell you the decibel level would have risen louder than it was. this helps americans understand the decisions that i made during a massive storm. but also, points out that the dilemmas that presidents face. not just me but every president. and you just have to pick and make the best judgment call you can. and hopefully people will go to the decision point and say, i didn't understand that or i now understand it better, it's interesting to me, they say, of how a president makes decisions and hopefully it will help them make better decisions. >> john king joins me now from dallas. it's interesting to see the former president, and his wife. you walk-through the library. what's it like, what did you find most interesting? >> we'll hear more from the president in a moment. when you walk-through the library, people should come here and visit whether you agree with

him or not, whether you supported him or not. the presidency he planned and then the presidency he had. you start out in a room where there are school books, children's books. he wanted to focus on education reform. then you see the state dinner on september 6th, 2001, president fox of mexico at the time. candidate bush promised humble foreign policy. it would be focused on latin america. and then you step across the threshold and you are on september 11th. you see the towers, the bull horn the president had. and you see a twisted piece of steel, right in the middle of that room, and you are reminded of how in a flash on that crisp september morning this presidency changed. as you take a few more steps, you see pictures of saddam hussein and the statue coming down in baghdad. you see how the president rallied the country after 9/11, and you step into what became the biggest controversy with

katrina of his administration, the decision to go from all that 9/11 popularity into what became such an unpopular war in iraq. >> it's fascinating he was being advised to declare an insurrection. >> you talk about a lot of different subjects. including the different tensions among his white house team. welcnew york state, where cutting taxes for families and businesses is our business. we've reduced taxes and lowered costs to save

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the right way. times change. our principles don't. you don't just have our word on it. you've got our name on it. that's how we run. nothing runs like a deere. discover the full line of riding lawn equipment at johndeere.com/howwerun or your local dealer. tomorrow president obama and all four living former presidents are going to be in dallas. former president bush's white house team will be there, as well. some of his advisers and staffers have talked pretty candidly about his bumps in the white house. that's where part two of john king's interview picks up. >> your friends told me the combination of the rising opposition for the iraq war and then katrina came right at that moment. she said it cast a huge shadow over the rest of the presidency.

is that a fair assessment? >> you know, historians will judge that. >> was it hard to get things done? >> i tried to get immigration reform done and it didn't happen. and social security reform. those two issues didn't take place. i don't think it was because of any shadows, congress is reluctant to take on a difficult issue like social security. the legislative body tends to be reactive. and until a crisis is imminent it's hard to get them to move forward. on immigration reform, the debate made it difficult to do. the job of the president is to anticipate problems and encourage the legislative body to move. eventually these problems will get solved. >> many in your party abandoned you on immigration. >> and social security.

>> do you see a sense of redemption when you see members of the party? >> i view it as smart and logical. i'm proud of my little brother being out there. he understands the issue well. eventually the problems will get solved. the president has to understand that not every issue gets solved during his presidency. he can contribute to the ultimate solution. >> i want to ask each of you. looking back, now that you're removed from the daily politics. and especially the end of the presidency was a polarizing time. how do you think that the angst about katrina. the opposition for the iraq war hardened some people so they couldn't see other things? the medicare prescription drug benefits. under budget according to most costs. many of your fellow republicans say, why did george w. bush give

us this liberal entitlement? >> john, i'm really not that concerned about why people did what during my presidency, i'm more concerned about being an effective person for the rest of my life. i know this, laura and i gave the presidency eight years of our lives. we gave it our all. made the best judgments i could, didn't compromise my principles, and i'm a content man. and i'm excited about what we're going to do here. >> you made two trips to africa since leaving office. i understand there is a third one coming up. what draws you there? >> the human condition. i think it's important to set priorities in life. i always said that one of the principles that was important to me was human life. we went to africa and saw people dying, needlessly dying.

there's nothing more important i think to help somebody live. during my presidency, i convinced congress to spend taxpayer's money to save lives. not only from hiv but malaria. and it worked. we wanted to continue that type of work with cervical cancer. >> this will bring your team together? >> yes, it will. >> we talked to a lot of them in recent days. at the end of the presidency there was strain over the disagreements in the second term, over the scooter libby pardon. was that strained? >> no, it was never strained. that's the mythology that's -- that we've escaped. in other words, there's a mythology in washington, there's kind of a -- >> he writes in his book that things were tense.

>> not really. scooter libby didn't agree with that decision. i don't -- i -- people look at the total picture. and we're friends then and friends now. >> can you enlighten us to the painting? [ laughter ] >> george w. rembrandt. >> he was looking for a pastime when he gave up smoking cigars. so he read churchill's book, painting is a pastime. and he's actually very good. he's a very good painter. >> what do you get from it? >> a lot of things. i relax, i see colors differently. i am i guess tapping a part of the brain that i certainly never used when i was a teenager and i get some satisfaction out of completing a project.

i paint people's pets and i love to give them their pet as a gift. i concede the signature is more valuable than the painting. >> he's become a pet pore trait painter. >> it's hard to say quickly. >> this is my second dedication of a bush presidential library. i was at your fathers, i am happy to be at this one. will i ever go to a third? >> i don't know. i think because of his example, his grandchildren and children admire his service and realize you can go into the public arena and not lose your soul. and that you can be a good father and still be a political figure. he's been an inspiration for me, obviously. but as well, brother, sister and grandchildren. there's no telling, there is a nephew, george p. bush who is

here in texas. >> you're not skipping jeb, are you? >> well, big jeb has a decision to make. and if i could make it for him, would be run. but i can't. and i don't know what he's going to do. he would be a great candidate and a great president. but i do know his son, george p. has made up his mind and he's running for general land commission in texas. he will do very well if given the chance to serve. >> do you prefer the presidency or the post presidency? >> i loved every part of our lives. when we were in midland texas to those eight years in the white house. it's a huge privilege to live at the white house and serve the american people. and here back home in dallas. >> congratulations. thank you for your time. good luck with this place. >> it's fascinating to hear them

in depth like that. president bush says he's content. do you think he's really as unconcerned as he seems about his legacy, about what people think of him? >> yes and no, in the sense that it is who he is. all during his presidency he was like this. he's not at least publicly introspective. if you go inside this campus, this library, it's very impressive again. whether you like or dislike george w. bush. there's a sculpture in the center court of president 41. and 43. this is a competitive family. george w. was around two reagan terms. he was stunned when his father lost. he's a very competitive person and loyal republican. you heard him nudging his brother jeb to run in 2016. you have a proud republican, and a proud family that's treated like pariah's right now. publicly he says it is like

water on a duck. of course it bothers him. he's grateful it's turned back his way on immigration. we'll watch tomorrow. it will be interesting to see his dad speak. three democrats are going to have to say good things about george w. bush, anderson. >> yeah. interesting. i'll be anchoring our coverage starting at 11:00 tomorrow of the dedication, i hope you join us for that. john king will be integral for that as well. thank you for that indepth interview tonight. that does it for us. we'll be back tomorrow at 8:00 eastern time. erin burnett outfront starts right after the break. using telemedical and mobile technologies, verizon innovators are connecting trauma surgeons to patients in the field. helping them get the attention they need, before they even reach the hospital. because the world's biggest challenges deserve even bigger solutions. powerful answers.

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